tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5797034330399726254.post5052577747378515795..comments2023-07-22T19:09:38.803+10:00Comments on post supportMIKE: Friendly Fire*mikehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03321272459192364067noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5797034330399726254.post-59041184045639746242008-09-04T11:59:00.000+10:002008-09-04T11:59:00.000+10:00... but I like yours better! I kept thinking, "Th...... but I like yours better! I kept thinking, "This is a summary?" on Gordo's. ;)Laurahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01926184833095262275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5797034330399726254.post-64752339691734170832008-09-04T11:14:00.000+10:002008-09-04T11:14:00.000+10:00FYI - Gordo has pretty much recounted the whole ta...FYI - Gordo has pretty much recounted the whole talk verbatim on his blog:<BR/><BR/>http://ingmarhingwah.blogspot.com/2008/09/notes-i-took-on-mark-driscoll-other-day.htmlMarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10078136445157707068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5797034330399726254.post-48253347113235974662008-09-04T07:24:00.000+10:002008-09-04T07:24:00.000+10:00JS - Mark Driscoll is someone God has used to have...JS - Mark Driscoll is someone God has used to have a profound and wonderful effect upon millions of Christians, encouraging them to love the Bible, the church and the world.<BR/><BR/>He is also someone God has used to save many, many unchurched people in a very secular city - Seattle. It is really worth caring about a dear Christian brother, a hardworking and gifted preacher and a (thanks to God) very fruitful evangelist.Mikey Lynchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10778815574608699550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5797034330399726254.post-69002834676351655282008-09-03T11:17:00.000+10:002008-09-03T11:17:00.000+10:00who is Mark Driscoll and why should anyone care?who is Mark Driscoll and why should anyone care?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5797034330399726254.post-34157983711449520162008-09-02T22:13:00.000+10:002008-09-02T22:13:00.000+10:001. Maybe, maybe not.2. And American culture glorif...1. Maybe, maybe not.<BR/>2. And American culture glorifies entrepreneurialism. I don't think it's true anyway. Aussies are very entrepreneurial, just in different, less showy, ways. Jesus is the vinedresser, not the denominational powers that be. This smacks of the stupid 80s-90s business mentality that sacked all its experienced managerial staff in favour of 30 something hot shots with no people skills and a piece of paper fresh out of college. The church is always ten to twenty years behind everyone else. Besides, how silly is it to put our older pastors out to pasture when ours is a rapidly greying society?<BR/>3. "There is a lack of merit based reward. The system rewards ministers for tenure rather than fruit". Does it? How? On the other hand, the church growth material also says that the one common factor in mega churches is twenty years of stable ministry by the same person. How long are they to be allowed to stay before being demoted if numbers don't grow? And where does the Sovereignty of God figure in all this?<BR/>4. "Australian men are immature" Ooh we are not! (stamps foot). "Men are but children of a larger growth" - Gellett Burgess<BR/>5. "Church Planting isn't widespread". True.<BR/>6. Tall Poppy Syndrome - is partly balanced by idol worship of mega pastors.<BR/>7. "Your Preaching lacks..." Speak for yourself.<BR/>8. I don't understand the necessary connection between the Holy Spirit and entrepreneurialism. I agree that some Sydney Evangelicals are paranoid about charismania. I agree you can be 'charismatic' and keep your good theology. Like someone else said, the Father, Son and Holy Bible jibe is a cheap shot and unfair caricature of Sydney Anglicans.<BR/>9. The critique of the parish system versus the real world (and virtual world!) we actually live in has some merit, but we should beware of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. The Medium is not the Message. McLuhan was wrong.<BR/>10. Why then does the bible instruct young men to submit to the authority of their elders rather than being more creative about it?<BR/>11. "You call the trained rather then train the called... 4 years in a bible college is too much for some." Cute line but simplistic. Depends on your theology of calling.<BR/>12. <I>"You have many 'priests' but no 'prophets' and 'kings'. The 'priests' maintain the staus quo. The 'kings' don't do ministry they go into business."</I> This is wrongheaded on several levels, and confuses metaphor with reality.<BR/>13. You could equally complain that many missiologists are poor theologians.<BR/>14. If anything, this has probably improved over the past 40 years. Several decades ago most candidates for ministry were aged around 22 and single. Now the average is late twenties and married. Probably some truth in the claim that there is pressure to put ministry before family. But I think most pastors realise that if their marriage fails their ministry fails too, and act accordingly.<BR/>15. I think Australian churches do both.<BR/>16. The only criteria the bible has for number one guys don't include being High I/High D type personalities. See my comments on Mikey's blog.<BR/>17. <I>"There isn't a great sense of urgency."</I> Too True. Of Christians everywhere, not just in Sydney.<BR/>18. All of this applies to the Church Growth Movement too.<BR/><BR/>On top of all this, as I said on Mikey's blog, although mega churches are great, they are historically rare. God has been quite content for most of history and in most places to grow His Church using micro-churches. The overwhelming majority of churches that ever existed had fewer than a hundred people in them and that hasn't stopped the Kingdom advancing.The Pookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14348286180688900647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5797034330399726254.post-27418961639414460272008-09-02T18:10:00.001+10:002008-09-02T18:10:00.001+10:00Btw, everyone's talking about Driscoll... but what...Btw, everyone's talking about Driscoll... but what did the Don say?!!Bronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17148165102738311880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5797034330399726254.post-26102606284339372282008-09-02T18:10:00.000+10:002008-09-02T18:10:00.000+10:00Interesting. I'd be really interested to hear the ...Interesting. I'd be really interested to hear the actual talk. And to talk with friends up here. Some of it is really fair, some of it I would need to hear the talk to understand. <BR/><BR/>I've heard the snappy quip "Father, Son and Holy Bible" before... but I don't think it's helpful. It's a critique which Sydney Anglicans are used to dealing with. The short answer is "the Holy Spirit wrote the Bible". <BR/><BR/>The comment about the fear and uncertainty of the Holy Spirit is perhaps fairer and I hope more likely to be taken seriously. It certainly speaks to me!<BR/><BR/>I think there's nothing like spending a few years somewhere to learn to appreciate and critique the culture - especially if it's been a big influence on you (as Sydney has with Tassie). We've certainly found it helpful for us to examine our own culture and influences.Bronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17148165102738311880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5797034330399726254.post-14042882523649227562008-09-02T17:11:00.000+10:002008-09-02T17:11:00.000+10:00Wow. Hard hitting. I hope people have the humility...Wow. Hard hitting. I hope people have the humility to listen and change where they should. I hope they *value* an outsider being able to see things more clearly. I agree with much of it.fionalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12320682273827502082noreply@blogger.com